STOCKHOLM: Sent på söndagkvällen är jag så tillbaka i Stockholm efter helgens informella utrikesministerdiskussioner i Corvara i provinsen Alto Adige i norra Italien.
Bortsett från allt annat var det intressant att knyta närmare kontakt med det Sydtyrolen som ju under decennier var en brännande konflikt mellan Italien och Österrike, men som under senare decennier, och inte minst på grund av att även Österrike blivit medlem i ett EU där gränser betyder allt mindre, snarare har blivit ett mönster för hur gamla konflikter som dessa kan hanteras.
Nu är detta en synnerligen välmående del av Italien.
I går kväll satt vi på middag med bl a Italiens och Österrikes utrikesministrar och de lokala företrädarna för den tyska befolkningsgrupp som ju dominerar det gamla Sydtyrolen.
Den som ingenting visste om den komplicerade och t o m blodiga konflikten om detta område under större delen av det gångna århundradet hade heller aldrig kunnat ana någonting av den under vår gemytliga samvaro.
Nu var det dock inte detta som dominerade helgens diskussioner.
I stället var det olika delar av den europeiska närområdespolitiken som kom att stå i centrum med Belarus, Tunisien och Albanien som konkreta exempel på utmaningar som både på kort och längre sikt kräver en kraftfullare europeisk närområdespolitik.
Men självfallet blev det också åtskilligt om Iran sedan Catherine Ashton anslutit till våra samtal direkt från sina överläggningar med de iranska företrädarna i Istanbul.
Att dessa inte ledde till något genombrott förvånade nog ingen. Men inte heller kan det sägas att de ledde till något sammanbrott för försöken till dialog kring de komplicerade frågorna.
Att den nukleära frågan entydigt stod i centrum för samtalen var ett tydligt framsteg. Men hur fortsättningen kommer att se ut återstår att se.
Det var en produktiv och nyttig europeisk helg som kommer att lämna avtryck i den gemensamma politiken framöver.
Att solen sedan strålade över de hänförande vackra Dolomiterna gjorde inte saken nämnvärt sämre.
Alla Dessa Dagar 
>Bortsett från allt annat var det intressant att knyta närmare konflikt med det Sydtyrolen
:-)
Alla förstår nog, men för de goda sakens skull :-)
Carl Bildt,
Du har talat mycket om frihet och säkerhet på internet, men, jag har sett väldigt lite refereras i media.
Har du möjlighet att berätta lite om vad som blivit sagt ?
Om jag inte minns fel var detta ett ämne även för helgens besök ?
Varför skriver du ingenting om vad du och Billström ska ha sagt enligt nya Wikiläckan? Skäms du för dina åsikter? Är du smygrasist?
idg.se – Bildt; ”Vissa vill ha någon sorts global reglering av Internet, men det varnar jag starkt för. Det kan hindra utvecklingen av nätet, sade han”
LW: Very good! Alltid något att mildra hjärnbranden som annars ständigt flammar upp av shackpjäsernas reaktionära svep.
Det ålderdomliga NWO spelet är ytterst lätt att räkna ut när man har insett premisserna och observerat historiens pussel.
Är vi på humör kanske vi fortsätter att posta den djupaste av ‘djup politik’ framöver.
Godkväll herr Utrikesminister.. jag älskar Sverige.. men min svenska är inte så bra. Sorry. So it is better i write in English.
My name is Alessandro Musolino, i was in charge of the international relations of the youth organization of Forza Italia and we met during a meeting of EDS.
I am happy you enjoyed this part of Italy that is really beautiful. Right in these days i am on holidays in Corvara and i would have been honored to greet you. I was having dinner the last night at the Hotel Post in the center of Corvara.
I hope there will be another opportunity.
I would like to know if you had the opportunity to discuss the issue of the terrorist Cesare Battisti because Italy wants to discuss this fact with the other European partners after former President Lula has rejected the extradition.
Tack så mycket.
Den eviga retoriken om kärnvapen!
Varför inte offentliggöra EU:s och USA:s energivapen system, som respektive land använder mot sina medborgare i de inhemska cybernetiska krigsföringarna!? De vapensystemen är minst lika farliga som kärnvapen.
Offentliggör militäriseringen av vetenskaperna.
Offenliggör militäriseringen av universiteten – utbildningarna i Människa-Dator-Interaktion.
Den svenska statsmaktens döljer genom politisk retorik och under sigillet nationell säkerhet att statsmakten faktiskt för många medborgare utgör: The Enemy Within.
Här är en rapport om energivapen från Norge som dock inte ingår i EU, men i NATO:
“De flesta organisationer för mänskliga rättigheter, sjukvårdspersonal, politiker och lagstiftare är omedvetna om vilka mänskliga experimet (HE, Human Experiment) som är i drift. Ännu färre vet hur man hanterar det, och vad det innebär i deras respektive yrke. En bredare undersökning krävs för att avslöja konsekvenserna för offren och samhället i stort.
Vissa konsekvenser blev uppenbara i mina samtal med offren (TI, Targetted Individual). År av upprepad upphettning av nervcellerna och den aggressiva stimuleringen av det endokrina systemet utmattar kropp och hjärna. Som en konsekvens därav förlorar offren förmågan att säkra sin ekonomi och bibehålla en stabil plattform för sina liv. Dessutom förändras uppfattningsförmågan på en undermedveten nivå, förprogrammerade triggerpunkter, kommer upp till ytan i medvetandet och kan leda till förändringar i personlighet och beteende. Provkörningar av ändrade flukturerande beteenden visar en variation beroende på längd och syfte, val av design och hur de enskilda hjärnorna responderar. De snabba variationerna i humör, perception och beteende skapar fysisk och psykisk stress i individen.”
http://www.irpt.info/index-3.html
Dear Mr. Bildt,
you obviously know very little about Süd-Tirol (South Tyrol) and it’s history and situation.
The people of Süd-Tirol (which is the one and only and real name of that region! not the fascist invention AltoAdige! The appropriate translation into italian would be sudtirolo) were never asked about their opinion. in 1946 we wanted to return to Austria, our homeland, but this was denied! Austria and Italy made their treaties, but we never were asked and we never confirmed them. We just had to accept them.
We are a wealthy region, that is true. But not because of the autonomy or because we got money from the EU or Italy, but because we worked hard and we had tourism and other advantages. So did our neighbors in Nord-Tirol, Trentino and Switzerland.
To everyone who is interested in this matter surf to websites like http://www.faschistische-relikte.com/ where you can see what this italian goverment is doing. Spending millions of € they repair fascist monuments! Unbelievable that a nation which is close to bankruptcy is spending money on such rubbish! It would be scandalous in Germany or Austria, but not in Italy where everyone is talking only about Berlusconis sex scandals. And why they do this? Just to humiliate the german and ladin minority!
Still today our original German and Ladin town-names are not legal, they are only tolerated, the only legal names are the italian inventions, introduced by fascist Italy and used since then. And I could tell you many other things.
Did your friend Mr. Frattini tell you these things? I don’t think so!
Dear Suedtiroler, you missed to remind how many privileges and tax benefits that the central government in Rome grants each year to Alto Adige. Your comment is at least ungenerous, as if the Alto Adige now enjoys an undisputed prosperity is thanks to these privileges, which no other European nation would give. Fortunately, the vast majority of South Tyroleans have a different opinion from your and they are proud of this unique model of integration.
Un caro saluto da Corvara.
/AM
Alessandro, you can call my post ungenerous or whatever you want. But everything I wrote is true and you know that.
And don’t use that fascist name ”AltoAdige”, even many italians in Süd-Tirol call this province ”sudtirolo”. Officially in italian, this province is called ”Provincia di Bolzano” and NOT ”AltoAdige”. Would you use names invented by the Nazis? So why do you use these fascist names? Well, I can only guess why.
And no comments from you to the fascist monuments?
Like this one: http://faschistische-relikte.com/images/stories/mussoliniritter_01_350.JPG
Why does the italian goverment spend millions on that crap while in Pompeii the historical and precious buildings are crumbling? While Naples is filled with garbage? While the inhabitants of Aquila still are waiting for new homes? While the debt is growing and is already the third largest in the world!? Tell me.
The reason why this province is wealthy is definitively not because we are a part of Italy or because we got unique privileges. Which, by the way, is not correct. Other italian regions got those ”privileges”, too. And where is their prosperity?
And what do this privileges really mean? We can spend 90% of our own taxes, 10% of the taxes are still going to the goverment. We do not receive, we still pay! But we pay less, that’s all. And North Tirol (Austria) or Graubünden (Switzerland) do not have any privileges, so tell me, why are they wealthy? Maybe it’s just because that entire regions is wealthy, isn’t it?
But this is not about money, it’s about democracy and self determination. We never got the possibility to choose, because Italy denied us a vote.
Well, if you really believe that the majority of South Tyroleans are willing to stay with Italy, then why don’t we get a VOTE? Italy fears the South Tyrolean self-determination, Italy is afraid of a democratic vote!
BTW, are you from Süd-Tirol? Well, I am. And I know the situation. I have expirienced this so called ”unique model of integration”. And it is not that perfect model that you or Mr. Frattini are presenting to the world.
Unfortunately, Mr. Carl Bildt talked to the wrong people……
Dear Suedtiroler, i don’t want to make any polemic, but i am sorry, also what i wrote it is true.
Being you an Italian national, you should maybe read again our Constitution. The name Alto Adige is the official name for the Region TRENTINO/ALTO ADIGE that is composed by the Provinces of Trento and Bolzano. Art. 131 of the Italian Constitution.
http://www.senato.it/istituzione/29375/131336/131407/131425/articolo.htm
It has nothing to do with fascism at all.
About the privileges, it is you to admit it. But thanks. It is true, the Provinces of Trento and Bolzano (aka the Region Trentino Alto Adige) obtained an exemption:compared to the other 19 regions that make up the Italian Republic, the Region Trentino Alto Adige can retain up to 90% of their taxes! I am not opposed to that principle, but in a national perspective. And it is precisely why the Berlusconi government is approving the reform of the so-called fiscal federalism. It is not fair that other neighboring regions and even the more virtuous of Trentino Alto Adige, such as Lombardy and Veneto, have to pay to Rome about 80% of their taxes.
That is why your comment is unfair. Not to me, but towards the taxpayers of those regions that do not enjoy this privileges.
This would be difficult if not impossible in Sweden or in any other country.
In addition, the Statute of your region provides any guarantee for the people of Italian, German and Ladin language: in fact, everyone is free to speak the language they want, to send their children to a school of Italian or German or Ladin, to obtain documents in one of these three languages. Even the courts are organized into these three languages.
This is because the language groups change in different areas of our region Alto Adige/Sudtirol. In the Capital city Bolzano (that is also the largest city of the region), the majority of people are of Italian language, in the Val Pusteria/Pustertal the majority of people are of German language, here in Corvara the majority of people are of Ladin and Italian language. That’s all.
This is also the reason a referendum is not feasible, nor necessary using the words of the President of the Province of Bolzano Luis Durnwalder. The Alto Adige/Sudtirol enjoys a special autonomy that fits all as a region of the Republic of Italy.
This autonomy is a model and a pride.
It would be foolish and anachronistic to question everything after almost 100 years of belonging to Italy. We must look to the tomorrow’s Europe, not the yesterday’s one.
Your reasoning is as dangerous as this could open old wounds: Italy, following your reasoning, should demand the return of part of Slovenia and almost all the Croatian coast, where most people are of Italian language, or the city of Nice and Corsica to France. Or Germany could ask France to get Alsace back.
No my dear friend, this is not the Europe of tomorrow.
To answer your final question, yes. I live between Bolzano and Venice.
Spero di essere stato sufficientemente chiaro. Dovremmo tutti riscoprire con orgoglio che la nostra regione è un modello per tutti e che appartenere all’Italia che è una nazione con tanti limiti (come tutti) ma con una storia unica e una cultura invidiata è un onore e un privilegio.
Un caro saluto amichevole.
Kjære Carl Bildt!
Jeg har lest i pressen om din besøk i Sydtirol og om din utalelsen at autonomien i Sydtirol skulle være et bra forbild for å løse gammle konflikter. Jeg kan bare si at den utalelse er ikke riktig. Det er sannt at autonomien har vært en akseptabel mellomløsning av denne store urettferdigheten som Sydtirol ble påført, men det må også sies at vi måtte kjempe veldig hardt og lenge for å få disse minsterettighetene. Du vet sikkert at Sydtirol var en urettferdig og umenneskelig krigsgave for Italia i 1. verdenskrig. Vi ble jo aldri sport om vi ville være en del av Italia. Det ville vi aldri være og hvis du skulle spørre folk så finnes det ennå en bra flertall som ikke ville være med Italia men heller være med Østerrike eller være en eget selvstendig land.
Mens du var i Sydtirol so forgikk i Ahrntal, en kommune i Sydtirol, en pre- avstemmning om retten av selvbestemmelse. Det blir mer og mer Sydtiroler som kommer til å kreve rett for selvbestemmelse, som du vet er ikke annet enn en fundamental menneskehetsrett fastskrevet i UN. Disse pre-avstemmninger gjøres etter mønsteret i Catalonia. Ahrntal var den første kommunen andre skal følge.
Det er sannt at vi har det økonomisk relativt bra, men ikke pga av Italia men til tross Italia. Italia har aldri gitt opp demmes formål for å ”italienisere” oss Sydtiroler. Du må bare dra en gang til hovedby Bozen. Da finnes det et fascistisk monument som ble byggt for å demonstrere statsmakten og for å fornærme oss med en diskriminerende innskrift på monumentet. Mens i Pompei rammler ned historiske bygnader fra romertiden rennoverer Italia et fascistisk monnument for dyre penger i Sydtirol. Det er også mange andre ting som ikke fungerer her. Godkjenning av vårt tysk språk i det offentlige er ofte bare på papiret. Politi snakker ofte bare italiensk og også mange andre myndigheter. En annen ting er det med våre historiske navner. Det finnes enda en lovverk fra fascist tiden som sier at bare de oppfinnte italienske navnene av vår toponomastikk gjelder. Det er fremdeles en kulturforbrytelse som opprettholdes. Og det er mange andre ting som tok for mye tid og plass her i dette forum.
Jeg tror du skal være forberedt å høre mer i nærmeste fremtiden om Sydtirol. Det var bare den ene siden som du ble kjennt nå i Corvara. Europa har aldri vært noe statisk og grensene kommer til å forandre seg sikkert igjen. Hadde vært Sverrige okkupert av tyskerne eller andre tror du Svenskene hadde vært fornøyd med bare en autonomi. Selvsagt, nei!
Og sånn er det også med Sydtirol. Jo værre det går politisk og økonomisk sett med Italia jo større blir ønskene for selvbstemmelse i Sydtirol.
Med vennlig hilsen
en Sydtiroler
AltoAdige is a invented name just like the many thousand other names for towns, mountains, streets created by the fascist Ettore Tolomei and you know that! Even the surnames and first names of the people were changed. And why this effort? This name was created to eliminate the name ”Tyrol/Tirol” forever. It was last year when finally several thousand fascist laws were abolished, only 65 years after the end of WWII !!! But guest what: right those laws which impose the fascist names were left and are still valid (the so called ”prontuario”)!
Yes, this is Italy and it’s unique model.
And again, no comment on the fascist monuments?????
And as I said before, it is not about money. The region (which BTW was imposed against our will and we still want to abolish it!) is not the only one with these ”unique privileges”: Sardinia, Sicily, Aosta (where btw the fascist names were eliminated in 1946!!!) have the same privileges or get even more! So what?
Your arguments are absolutly poor and weak! None of the nations will ever claim any territories but the people of the territories should be able do decide which nations they should belong to. That’s what self-determination really means! Austria is not claiming Süd-Tirol but we, the people of Süd-Tirol want to decide!
You are talking about the Europe of tomorrow but you want only the preservation of the national states. Changing the borders is foolish and anachronistic? Well, the German reunification, the separation of Czechoslovakia are only two examples and prove that a peaceful change is possible and that borders in fact can be moved or even new ones can be created – without violence or war.
We are not alone, there are other regions. You can find such movements in Catalonia, Scotland, Belgium. If borders have no influence anymore and practically do not exist in the Europe of tomorrow, so where is the problem?
And if, as you believe, the majority would vote for Italy, so what? You can only win and the discussion would finally be over. So why is Italy so afraid of the self-determination? I know the answer…
Are you a resident of this province? I seriously doubt that! And why are you writing me in italian? If we can speak all languages in this unique model province as you mentioned, well, than write me in german instead. I’m just curious. :)
I did not want to do any polemic.. but it seems you are just obsessed by the fascist past that fortunately is gone. I even doubt you are a south tyroler.
Anyway as i said before, thanks God for the freedom and peace of our Continent this ”old fashioned” and dangerous views are over.
If you don’t like to live in Alto Adige where you born, there are no borders in our Continent. You can easily cross the Brenner Pass and move to North Tyrol, where for sure you will be back the following day after you will realize that in North Tyrol you will not have the same privileges you can enjoy in Alto Adige.
E’ veramente penoso che nel 2011, quasi 100 anni dopo l’annessione dell’Alto Adige all’Italia (ben prima del Fascismo) ci siano persone che disprezzano il Paese dove sono nati.
Le ricordo (mio caro signore) che nessun referendum è consentito dalla Costituzione della Repubblica Italiana volto alla separazione di una parte del Paese.
La Costituzione recita infatti che l’Italia è una e indivisibile.
Buona serata.
I forgot to mention that Alto Adige is Südtirol in German as it is written all over and not Süd-Tirol as you always wrongly wrote.
And to answer at your question about why i do not write in German but in Italian.. i would like to remind you i express myself using the language of Dante Alighieri, Alessandro Manzoni and Leonardo Da Vinci and Michelangelo is due to the fact that i am Italian and European. And proud to be so.
Buona notte.
”If you don’t like to live in Alto Adige where you born, there are no borders in our Continent. You can easily cross the Brenner Pass and move to North Tyrol,…”
Det er akkurat sånne utalelser som vi måtte tåle allerde fra fascist tiden til nå. Helt utrolig!
Shame on you Alessandro to mention such a statement like this! This is deepest fascist- nationalist behavior! You should learn about our language and culture first before you write here about South Tyrol you have no idea about. There are many god history books in German…unfortunatly a language you dont know and understand like other things about South Tyrol!
comic. you are everything except from ”Süd-Tirol”.. as you wrote the wrong way.
Take care.
Jeg skjønner ikke hva du mener. In Engelsk sier man jo også ”South Tyrol” som er mye mer riktig ann Sydtirol. Navnet med strek i mellom symboliserer jo bare at Syd-Tirol er en del av Tyrol som det var i flere hundret år lenge før Italia existerte!
Alessandro, finally you revealed your true face. I have nothing to add to what ”sydtiroler1” already wrote. And I am not even surprised, since I heard such things many times by Italians and I was even victim of extreme discrimination. Poor Europe if those are your supporters….
Be assured: I am from Süd-Tirol, and yes, you can write the name this way. It underlines that South Tyrol was, is and always will be a part of Tirol (Tyrol) and most supporters of self-determination use that version. Of course, you did not know this fact, just like most other things about us and Süd-Tirol.
Visit the website of the party ”Süd-Tiroler Freiheit” and you’ll see: http://www.sued-tiroler-freiheit.com/
(of course you’ll find also the normal version Südtirol – nobody’s perfect).
Thanks to post the link of SudTiroler Freiheit.
I actually did not have any doubt you were a supporter of this NAZI party that fortunately collects a number of votes like a code telephone number.. 0,..
Poor fool, as you ran out of (weak and useless) arguments now everything left are insults and defamations. Well, I believe everyone who followed this brief discussion will recognize who really is on the extreme right wing.
BTW, quite stupid to post you real identity:
”My name is Alessandro Musolino, i was in charge of the international relations of the youth organization of Forza Italia and we met during a meeting of EDS.”
I will forward this post to the Süd-Tiroler Freiheit. Since you are an italian citizen they can easily file a ”denuncia” (criminal complaint) against you.