As I wrote about in the beginning of this year on this blog, the decesive immediate development in the search for peace between Israel and Palestine this year would be the respective leaders Ariel Sharon and Abu Mazen confronting the extremists in their respective camps.
This is certainly what we have been seeing in the last few weeks.
In Gaza, the police of the Palestinian Authority has been engaged in gun battles with the armed forces of the Hamas. And now in Israel, the confrontation between the police and the army on the one side and the extremist settlers over the coming evacuation of settlements in Gaza is heating up.
The extremists are feeding and fueling each other. For the settlers, there are no moderate Palestinians worth talking to, and Israelis that believe so are views as traitors to the cause. For the extremists on the Palestinians side there are no moderate Israelies worth talking to, and Palestinians that believe so are seen as traitors to the cause.
It’s this logic of violence and intolerance that must be broken. And to me it looks as if the violence we see on the TV screens now are part of that process. The moderate majorities are no longer tolerating being harassed by the militant fringes of their respective societies.
As to the continuation, that’s an open question. US Secretary of State Rice is on her way to the region to give support to the disengagement and the relative truce, and perhaps to start to discuss what will happen thereafter.
Important days ahead in the region.
”For the settlers, there are no moderate Palestinians worth talking to,”
”Settlers”? Are you perhaps talking about third generation civilian Jews, in civilian legally owned homes? Be so kind and name such ”moderate Palestinan” organization, just one will do, under the PA umbrella…
”and Israelis that believe so are views as traitors to the cause.”
What ”cause” would that be?
”For the extremists on the Palestinians side there are no moderate Israelies worth talking to,”
…and Hamas etc has genocide goals against the Jews, PLO against the zionists. You ”forgot” that small little part.
”and Palestinians that believe so are seen as traitors to the cause.”
Pallie collaborators, as they are called, are usually lynched and shoot by their ”comrades and brothers”, or senteced to death under PA juridstiction, for any co-operation with the ”zionist entity” under treason charges.
You notice no difference?
Agreed, ”settlers” isn’t the correct term. Thieves or occupants would do much better.
The ethnic cleansing and terrorism performed by Jews before and around Israel’s inception seem to fall on deaf ears these days. Interestingly, if one is all of a sudden so interested in legality, I bet we could find the remains of a Palestinian village under every Israeli settlement, certainly in the now so called occupied territories. And most likely in Israel as a whole.
It’s pretty convenient to fall back on historical precedence isn’t it? Like the entire case for a Jewish state. Until you can abandon such intangible folly for a ”real” and ”legal” claim to the land. I.e. ”we’re here now and thus every other claim is ludicrous.” Not so convenient when you’re getting shafted by someone else using the same kind of precedence, is it?
”Thieves or occupants would do much better.”
Oh here is Bjorn, the European, again, with his own history cluless as usual rantings. Bjorn, it’s per se impossible for jews to occupy their own homes, as it is for Swedes to occupy Sweden.
But so Jews in judea are ”thieves” for defending themselves against illegal Arabic Muslim aggressions, terror and invasion wars?
How telling, the demonizing hate slander against Jews -sounds like could be straight copied from either Der Sturmer or Radio Islam lingo.
”The ethnic cleansing and terrorism performed by Jews before and around Israel’s”
Israel did not cleanse anyone.
800 000 Jews on the other hand were forced to flee from their homes under arabic gunpoint, around entire middle east 1948. This after the Arab states rejected peace, and invoked their annilhiation genocide attempted war. But that wont concern Bjorn that the entire Middle East -execpt Israel- now is more or less cleansed from jews by the Muslim Arabs. That the Jewish homes and belongings, since thousands of years of presence, has been state Arab looted and plunderd seems to be of no concern at all. But for Bjorn it seems that’s not enought, ”Jews -out of Israel disputed areas”, without any negotiatons at all,”reward Arab history forgery and current terror ” he seems to chant now. How very telling.
Since Jews were given their land (back) by the international community (UN), the existence of modern Israel shouldn´t be disputed by anyone. There is a regional conflict, that´s all, and apparently an educational problem.
The islamic society, however, appears predestined to generate serious threats in its mutual relations, whatever the issue.
The world is sick and tired of having to handle this kind of obstacles, and know too well what the options are at a point that is already passed.
Simulev: It’s interesting how you meet every argument Björn has except one… The one that says ”I bet we could find the remains of a Palestinian village under every Israeli settlement, certainly in the now so called occupied territories. And most likely in Israel as a whole.”.
See, that’s the winning point here. Of course, I think the idea of a jewish state is a good idea, but when land (of cultural, not historic) importance is allocated for this purpose, there is bound to be conflict. What NOT to do then would be to try and expand this allocated land with frivolous historical claims, while ignoring the fact that people have lived there for centuries, without knowledge of the people of Abraham.
To see this new development by Mr. Sharon gives me and many with me hope of a better tomorrow though. Let’s hope the process doesn’t cause too many deaths and tragedies.
In Europe allocations are still in progress.
The mission of Carl Bildt is to reshape the map into blocks of nations including islamic states, if necessary by force resembling the stiffness of Anna Lindh.
Why not let people have their say?
”I bet we could find the remains of a Palestinian village under every Israeli settlement, certainly in the now so called occupied territories. And most likely in Israel as a whole.”
I highly doubt it. Since prior 1948 the Jews was the so-called ”Palestinians”. Around 1967, when the Arabs lost yet another aggression war they had started, started to cultivate the propaganda myth. If one however digs in Israel there is traces as concrete evidence of the Jewish Hebrew Israeli presence in every single corner for at least the last 4000 years. No traces of the ”Palestinian” language, culture, etcetera…And the traces of the Jews can be found in the rest of the Middle East aswell, that for some ”very strange” reason today is judenrein.
And that’s why the Muslim Arabs fiercly oppose any such dug outs.
You ”highly doubt it”? On what research do you base you doubts?
Here is an interesting article, including an interview with Professor Ze’ev Herzog from Tel Aviv University: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/575168.stm
By the mid-19th century, the Land of Israel was a part of the Ottoman Empire, populated mostly by Muslim and Christian Arabs, as well as Jews, Druze, Bedouins and other minorities. By 1844, Jews constituted the largest population group (and by 1890 an absolute majority) in a few cities, most notably Jerusalem. So jews have a history there, but no way near such an omnipresent history as you suggest.
Near the end of the century Leon Pinsker and Theodore Herzl took practical steps toward securing international support for a Jewish homeland in the region of Palestine, though neither of them considered Palestine as the only conceivable site for the future state. Thus the state of Israel might very well have ended up with a totally different set of borders than what we see today.
The second half of the 19th century saw a new kind of Jewish immigrant, prevalently secular left-wing socialists who aimed to reclaim the land by working on it. Mikveh Israel was founded in 1870 by Alliance Israelite Universelle, followed by Petah Tikva (1878), Rishon LeZion (1882), and other agricultural communities founded by the members of Bilu and Hovevei Zion.
These are all well-known facts. I only make claims I can back up with such facts. I understand that uncovering historical facts which challenge the traditional beliefs of for example the bible can be unsettling for people who base their entire culture on that very same beliefs. I can only hope that our future brings us a common understanding of how we can respect each other and our ancestors, and thus come to live in peace.
”So jews have a history there, but no way near such an omnipresent history as you suggest.”
Limber, read your own link…
”There is ample proof that the Jewish people occupied the land almost 3000 years ago.”
Israel is the only soverign nation, kingdom or state, ever has existed in this area. Ever.
But let me see if I get this straight, there ”settlers”? And if thats not enought -collective racist acusements aimed against Jews for being ”thieves” and ”occupants” -who’s sheer continous precence can be accounted for- at least 3000 years? Thats btw twice the time that the religion of Islam even have existed…So take I wild guess who the newcomming intruders might be in this perspective. Yes, it the same one’s whos only modern functioning industri seems to be to strap bomb-belts on their own offspring.
Then I answerd the smear idiot-accusation about leveld ”Palestinian villages” -as a direct result of previous Arabic Muslim illegal aggressions such as terror and war, as answers towards peace.
And a totaly judenrein Middle East, with over 800 000 Jews forced to leave their homes. How very strange that they dont inherent ”refugee” status over the generations, huh?
The world’s collective amnesia
The Jews took no one’s land
The article has two sides, and how you read it depends on your own views i suppose… For me, the archaeological facts point out that there have been jews in the area for a long time. But there has also been several other groups of people inhabiting the land. And noone can claim the land for their own. Once, they all found a way to live side by side in peace. And no archaeology could ever tell if any of those peoples claimed to have a nation, kingdom or state.
Funny how your articles come from WorldNetDaily, not exactly what could be called an independent source.
The way you use old german words, once filled with hate and loathing, is really sad.
”there have been jews in the area for a long time. But there has also been several other groups of people inhabiting the land”
A inhabitant is somewhat diffrent from sovering ruling. Are you now denying the existance of the Jewish kingdom that ruled -and developed that civilization and society- for at least a millienia prior to foreign roman invadors?
”Funny how your articles come from WorldNetDaily, not exactly what could be called an independent source.”
I see, ad hominem attempts against the source, instead against the presented facts and following logics? Farrah, the author and CIO of WND is a international acknowleged expert on these issues, of Arabic origin living in a western democracy.
”The way you use old german words, once filled with hate and loathing, is really sad.”
The really sad part is that you complain about the usage of the word, instead of what it acually represent, wich is the current truth about the situation. But okay, the ethnical cleansing against hundreds of thousands Jews around entire Middle East, performed by Muslims Arabs around 1948, suits you better?
That’s suggested again against the Jews in Gaza.